I actually liked this episode overall, though there were things I...did not like. The filming was GREAT. I loved the back and forth (I have no knowledge of filming technicalities or jargon) during the recruitment/plan-making bit, the scenes with Rowena and Clea and then Rowena, Clea, and Sam, the witches all working together, and the lighting at the end while Rowena stares at...something. Beautiful. I haven't been a big fan of God!Chuck, so it's cool with me that Amara half-smote him, and I enjoyed her speech while she did so. I hope they go out into the empty together (I'm unspoiled for anything upcoming, so this is all speculation/longing on my part). She won't be so lonely, he won't be so smarmy, and they can leave the world to its inhabitants.
I did kind of wonder why no one in this show ever properly gangs up on anyone else, though. Like, couldn't the witches and the angels have smote simultaneously, maybe to greater effect?
I found the petty teenager routine to be as dull as it was the first time around with Amara and Crowley, and I'm a bit unnerved that the bunker is apparently a free-for-all now (though maybe that means they'll go back to roadtripping next season??). I wish we'd been allowed to see more of Sam's internal reactions to Lucifer's presence, though as the season's not over I'm kind of hoping for more on that next week? Foolish hope, perhaps?
Also, did they set Donatello up to die? Is he dead? Was he aware of the plan? I'm confused about him.
Kay, so my thought- Dean takes Amara and himself out- Sam wakes up to Dean yelling- 'Rise and Shine Sammy'- this season was all a dream! Yeah, I'm not excited but I guess curious and a little worried about watching this play out. :)
I actually liked this episode, but there were some things that annoyed me, especially Sam and Dean being so casual about Lucifer, and Dean wanting Amara killed although Chuck had explained the light/dark thing!
So, what did you think of that episode, Caranfindel? Don't hold back, now! :P
> Sam being surprised that Dean couldn't kill Amara, even though he already knew that
My take was not that Sam was surprised Dean coudn't kill her. I thought that what was news to Sam was that Dean had actually physically tried and failed. And that surprised Sam because it actually contradicts the whole "I can't do it because I'm drawn to her" plotline. Seems to me that what the writers were doing here was reminding us of the contradiction and trying to fix it by saying Dean failed because his heart wasn't in it - as opposed to what we actually saw, which was that Dean made a genuine attempt and the angel blade shattered, because it was an angel blade and she was the FRIGGIN" DARKNESS ALREADY! So yeah, I'm gonna cry a big fat bullshit on that and, indeed, the whole "I can't make myself kill her" theme.
I don't get any of this thing. All it's dne was break my heart and make my brothers feels and show feels heavy, sad and creeped out.... I truly don't get the point of it. And I am (sort of) a Sam (sort of ) girl, and this is not not not not for me.
I think it's more that it amplifies only the negative (dark) parts of your personality.
Lucifer was a jealous dick before the MoC -> a vicious psychopath who wants to destroy the world because his dad liked it.
Dean had some self-righteous and controlling tendencies (which, to be fair, the angels made stronger in Season 4) before the MoC -> afterwards, a vicious psychopath of a dictator.
I don't know what Cain was like beforehand other than thinking it was better to kill his brother than let him be damned, but he ended up afterwards thinking it was better to kill his whole bloodline, so... yeah.
On the other hand, if angel blades *are* linked to intent/Will, it would explain the plothole of having Castiel tortured but not killed by one back early on this season.
I dunno. The show's been fairly consistent that holy weapons only kill supernatural beings if they're applied to the vessel's kill spots - heart, head - etc, so I don't really need an idea that angel blades tap into intent to explain why they can just wound sometimes. And I don't think the writers are being that clever.
I forgot to thank you for your episode reaction and your polls, which are always a redeeming element of any episode. I'm so annoyed about this episode I can't even.
Wasn't a big fan of this one. The conversation between Chuck and Lucifer could've been great, but the way it was done felt like cutesy fanfic. (Which is fine, in itself, but not what I want to see on the show.) And Sam deciding to take on the MoC offscreen?? Wtf??
So, what did you think of that episode, Caranfindel?
Clearly I'm still undecided. ;-P
I agree that Sam was surprised about the specific failed attempt, not Dean being conflicted. But it still seems like Dean would have already told him that really important piece of information.
But I don't think it was an angel blade. I think it was the knife he took from the girl who was killing the zanna. And would an angel blade even work? If a regular one wouldn't kill an archangel, even an archangel blade wouldn't kill something a step above an archangel.
Exactly! It was very fanficcy. And I love me some fanfic (unreasonably so) and this would have been an adorable cracky fic but it just didn't fit on the actual show.
Makes sense! I'm just - can you imagine a s12 that's about dealing with a world with no supernatural - probbly needing to get it back for some reason towards the next season?
I think his first attempt was with the knife you're referring to and that's when Amara threw him across the room and pretty much knocked him unconscious. I think there was a second attempt later when he actually tried to stab her with an angel blade which (surprise [well, Dean looked surprised, anyway :P]) shattered, and that's what we were shown in the flashback. So Dean's actually tried to kill her twice . . . but he's not mentally capable of killing her (*cough* bullshit). Just arm the poor bugger with a weapon that actually had a dog's chance of working and then we'll see how incapable he is of killing her. (Not like killing things isn't Dean's absolute favourite thing, or anything . . . oh, wait, was that just MOC Dean? *cough*) :P
Of course, this is all just my recollection which may be faulty since I haven't watched any of the recent seasons' episodes more than once (except for Baby). Meanwhile, I've just rewatched season one again for the second time . . . this month. I'd ace any pop quiz about those eps.
Ps I see 3 people so far have voted that they liked not a goddam thing, and no one has yet voted "whoa that's harsh". Just an interesting observation in a....you know...observationally interesting way :P
More serious observation, though: 19 people don't know and don't care if Lucifer is really dead. Just how seriously does the show have to fuck up to come to a point where most people don't give a grenade about Lucifer?
I don't think I've disliked an SPN episode this much since Bloodlines.
Lucifer's redemption arc (I guess they sort of went there) is IMNSHO an abomination anyway -it kinda pulls the mat under the character, and when the way they execute the idea... fuck, Supernatural has usually been great at mixing very different moods in a single episode and making it work but... no. Just no.
Seriously, WTF is up with the boys just casually observing Chuck and Luci playing a painfully unfunny sitcom in the bunker? They could've gone for Sam facing his Hell trauma again and Dean being angry and protective, great drama and plenty of feels, but no.
Oh, and I'm probably the only person who gave any attention to Amara's nail polish, but man, that's a fugly color. (Aside from that she was pretty great, tho.)
When watching the episode, I assumed Lucifer had been de-vesseled and was back in the cage. But now, I'm not so sure. I guess he could be dead? And I did love that they seemed to superimpose Mark P's face over Misha's - it sure looked like it to me.
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I did kind of wonder why no one in this show ever properly gangs up on anyone else, though. Like, couldn't the witches and the angels have smote simultaneously, maybe to greater effect?
I found the petty teenager routine to be as dull as it was the first time around with Amara and Crowley, and I'm a bit unnerved that the bunker is apparently a free-for-all now (though maybe that means they'll go back to roadtripping next season??). I wish we'd been allowed to see more of Sam's internal reactions to Lucifer's presence, though as the season's not over I'm kind of hoping for more on that next week? Foolish hope, perhaps?
Also, did they set Donatello up to die? Is he dead? Was he aware of the plan? I'm confused about him.
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Also - Darkness = end of magic?
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I love your questions, you always make me smile!
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> Sam being surprised that Dean couldn't kill Amara, even though he already knew that
My take was not that Sam was surprised Dean coudn't kill her. I thought that what was news to Sam was that Dean had actually physically tried and failed. And that surprised Sam because it actually contradicts the whole "I can't do it because I'm drawn to her" plotline. Seems to me that what the writers were doing here was reminding us of the contradiction and trying to fix it by saying Dean failed because his heart wasn't in it - as opposed to what we actually saw, which was that Dean made a genuine attempt and the angel blade shattered, because it was an angel blade and she was the FRIGGIN" DARKNESS ALREADY! So yeah, I'm gonna cry a big fat bullshit on that and, indeed, the whole "I can't make myself kill her" theme.
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I think it was intended to.
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I don't get any of this thing.
All it's dne was break my heart and make my brothers feels and show feels heavy, sad and creeped out....
I truly don't get the point of it.
And I am (sort of) a Sam (sort of ) girl, and this is not not not not for me.
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Lucifer was a jealous dick before the MoC -> a vicious psychopath who wants to destroy the world because his dad liked it.
Dean had some self-righteous and controlling tendencies (which, to be fair, the angels made stronger in Season 4) before the MoC -> afterwards, a vicious psychopath of a dictator.
I don't know what Cain was like beforehand other than thinking it was better to kill his brother than let him be damned, but he ended up afterwards thinking it was better to kill his whole bloodline, so... yeah.
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Great way of expressing it! And, ditto :)
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Clearly I'm still undecided. ;-P
I agree that Sam was surprised about the specific failed attempt, not Dean being conflicted. But it still seems like Dean would have already told him that really important piece of information.
But I don't think it was an angel blade. I think it was the knife he took from the girl who was killing the zanna. And would an angel blade even work? If a regular one wouldn't kill an archangel, even an archangel blade wouldn't kill something a step above an archangel.
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I'm just - can you imagine a s12 that's about dealing with a world with no supernatural - probbly needing to get it back for some reason towards the next season?
"We're not even brothers here "no subject
Of course, this is all just my recollection which may be faulty since I haven't watched any of the recent seasons' episodes more than once (except for Baby). Meanwhile, I've just rewatched season one again for the second time . . . this month. I'd ace any pop quiz about those eps.
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More serious observation, though: 19 people don't know and don't care if Lucifer is really dead. Just how seriously does the show have to fuck up to come to a point where most people don't give a grenade about Lucifer?
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That episode ended with Amara saying Chuck was nearly dead but would live long enough to see his creation completely destroyed. Subtext much?
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Lucifer's redemption arc (I guess they sort of went there) is IMNSHO an abomination anyway -it kinda pulls the mat under the character, and when the way they execute the idea... fuck, Supernatural has usually been great at mixing very different moods in a single episode and making it work but... no. Just no.
Seriously, WTF is up with the boys just casually observing Chuck and Luci playing a painfully unfunny sitcom in the bunker? They could've gone for Sam facing his Hell trauma again and Dean being angry and protective, great drama and plenty of feels, but no.
Oh, and I'm probably the only person who gave any attention to Amara's nail polish, but man, that's a fugly color. (Aside from that she was pretty great, tho.)
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