Episode poll 11.17: "Red Meat"

[caranfindel]

Before we start, let me quickly say thank you. The comments on last week's poll were full of interesting conversation and astute observations and you guys just add so much to my ridiculous little polls and I love you all. Regulars, visitors, lurkers, people who always comment, people who vote but never comment... thank you all for being here. {smooches}

(Sloppy declarations of love? I might be a teeny bit intoxicated from 11.17!)

Now, on to the poll!


[Poll #2041182]

No spoilers in the comments, please!

Comments

[fanspired]

> Billie calling Dean on his shit

Ah, but Dean offered his life to save Sam, straight swap, proving that Billie's (and many others' over the years) thesis that Dean only wants to save Sam because he can't lose him is, at least, simplistic.

[caranfindel.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. Yes, Dean would rather be dead himself than survive Sam's death. Simplistic but still accurate, I think. Did I miss what you meant?

[fanspired]

Whether Dean lives without Sam or dies without him, he's still going to lose him, so Billie's implication that Dean's desire to save Sam is simply motivated by the selfish need to keep him around is, at the very least, not the whole story. I just don't think we should accept everything that's said on the show at face value. There are a lot of commonly repeated myths, that are even accepted as facts by the characters themselves, that are actually contradicted or at least called into question by the action we've actually witnessed if we're paying attention.

[caranfindel.livejournal.com]

The way I see it, Dean has two goals when it comes to Sam, and neither conflicts with what Billie said. His primary goal is to keep Sam alive. This is more important than saving people and hunting things, as evidenced by his asking Sam not to complete the last trial.

But if he fails at that, his secondary goal is to not survive Sam's death. And again, this is more important than saving people. When he thought Sam was dead, he was ready to die fighting the other werewolves. He only changed his course when Corbin begged him to save him and Michelle. (And if you don't agree he was going kamikaze at that point, keep in mind that he could have said "you'll be fine; hide in the basement while I kill these guys." But he didn't, because that wasn't his intention. He had to change his entire plan in order to survive so he could save them.)

So, his offer to Billie was to save Sam outright (ostensibly to save the world), or take him in trade for Sam. Either option would meet one of those goals. Having Sam around to fight Amara was just a bonus as far as he was concerned.

(ETA... Hope I don't sound argumentative. I'm having a grand time discussing this.)

[fanspired]

I don't disagree about Dean's goals. It's more a question of his motivation. I think it's important that, although his first instinct on thinking Sam was dead was to go kamikaze, he nevertheless was persuaded from it by the need to save people. I do think he genuinely believes that, if anyone can save the world, it's Sam. I also think that we're seeing a return to his season 2 mentality where he believed that Sam deserved to live, and he didn't.

I actually have a lot more I want to say. This is a subject I could (and would love to) discuss at length! :) Gonna have to get back to you on it, though, as I have deadlines to meet at the moment (grrr boo hiss)

[caranfindel.livejournal.com]

Stupid real life! {shakes angry fist}