On the vessel question, I need to look this uo, but didn't Crowley say he retrieved it and then strengthened it? Which means Nick could have still been in there when Lucifer jumped to Sam at the end of season 5---
What really bothered me about Jack's angst was Cas and Bobby not pointing out to him that the Winchesters by and large don't have powers, a few seasons excepted, and yet they've managed to save the world. Telling Jack his powers will grow back doesn't seem as useful as pointing out that the guys he emulates don't have powers and do okay.
Also, I would give someone my firstborn and put up with ALL the demon drama if it involved the demons deciding Sam is the king of hell and showing up all the time to bother him with questions about the way it's run.
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I’m reserving judgment on Michael. I feel like he’s interesting enough, but we don’t know much yet about his motives. He’s obviously hot as hell as has an incredible sense of style (although I’m with you on that hat...wtf?! I guess I need to watch more “Peaky Blinders”?!)
Sam was AMAZING. I did not expect quite so much leadership and hotness. I loved the whole crazy thing with the demons because he basically told them where they could go if they didn’t go through him, and that’s okay by me because SAM FREAKING WINCHESTER!
Mary was trying way too hard. Does she think she needs to be Dean? But she’s got all the wrong ideas about how to deal with Sam. She annoys the hell out of him (“You keep saying that” and the way Sam all but snaps at her in the car). She doesn’t seem to “get” Sam or know how to verbally spar with him the way Dean does, although she’s obviously trying. It’s a little cringe-worthy. That whole scene in the car was a testament to how absent Dean is in this episode. It was super sad :(
You know, it occurs to me that these newbies who are calling Sam 'chief' have mostly only known Sam's leadership. Might it not be interesting if, when Dean comes back and tries to take up his alpha male mantle once more, there's resistance in the ranks from those who preferred Sam's management style? o_O
I have seen others comment on how it will be when Dean comes back and takes the leadership role back upon himself, but I don't understand why they think the newbies would follow Dean when they've had a "Chief" all along.
It also occurs to me that Kipling may not have been Crowley, but he was still more interesting than Michael.
In fairness to Jensen, the previous actor didn't give him much to work with. And, in fairness to the previous actor, the material didn't give him much to work with. The truth is, Michael is a boring character and always has been; Matt Cohen was an interesting actor.
I think Nick is not actually Lucifer but will actually turn out to be evil, because hahaha why not?
With the conversation in the car, I really got the sense that Mary is younger than Sam coming through clear as day. For all she’s a capable hunter, she hasn’t gone through everything Sam (and Dean) have, not even close. And she’s trying to keep her chin up and mother Sam anyway, and Sam gently called her on it because no, he’s been through too much not to be a realist about this. A really fascinating dynamic, and it can’t be easy for either of them to have the parent/child relationship flowing the wrong way, as it were.
Kip became much more interesting to me once he admitted he was deliberately aping Crowley, putting on a nice-demon mask. His dedication to his character was impressive, but there were cracks showing through the darkness.
Well, Sam asked him about Dean and if he remember anything , so I think he is doing that for Dean's sake.
Regarding wether Nick is Lucifer or not, since Cas told Jack that his grace will restore with time, and Lucifer has stolen some of that grace, so maybe Lucifer will restore back with time too. I hope this never happen.
I honestly felt that Jensen isn't doing a good job as Michael. He mentioned himself that it was difficult to do after being Dean for so long. Demon Dean worked well because it played to Jensen's strengths; Michael doesn't.
I watched a big chunk of this episode. SAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAM!
Love your polls! Two thoughts: 1) Regarding Nick, I thought Crowley strengthened the vessel to survive Lucifer and last forever so not a surprise that it didn't die. My question is whether it's empty and that perhaps Nick is just a soulless body. Could be an additional reason beyond the concern about Lucifer regenerating. We know that soulless people (other than Sam) have their triggers to be violent so maybe that he's being kept in comfy confinement. 2) Kip implied that he was imitating Crowley to appeal to the Winchesters to get the same deal and said something about "if you knew what I really was" (dying to see the transcript on that one). He was repackaging himself to get the job he wanted as King of Hell. I wasn't too invested in Kip but that idea fascinates me.
There was a lot to love in this episode, but I particularly loved all things Sam related (the beard, the new guy in charge role, his relationship with Jack, his basically appointing himself King of Hell). *slow clap* All good stuff.
I was annoyed with the return of Nick. The fact that he has only some memory of what happened when he was possessed seems like a cop out. Though I was happy they addressed the elephant in the room re: how Sam must feel having to see "Lucifer". I genuinely felt like the whole thing is meant to give them an out later. (They can kill Michael with the archangel blade, but still have Dean survive.)
I don't know how I feel about Jensen as Michael!Dean. His portrayal of Demon!Dean was better, but I kind of really hate the Michael character, which I assume we're mean to do, so maybe that means Jensen is doing an amazing job.
I liked it better on rewatch. I really do think this is Sam's version of The End episode only with Dean saying yes. Sam is leading the survivors left after that decision. I missed Sam in the episode The End and I miss Dean now but I hope there will be some good storytelling to make it all worthwhile. At the very least I am enjoying the Sam focus and insight we don't normally get.
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caranfindel) wrote2018-10-14 03:06 pm
Edition 4,469
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Also, I would give someone my firstborn and put up with ALL the demon drama if it involved the demons deciding Sam is the king of hell and showing up all the time to bother him with questions about the way it's run.
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Sam was AMAZING. I did not expect quite so much leadership and hotness. I loved the whole crazy thing with the demons because he basically told them where they could go if they didn’t go through him, and that’s okay by me because SAM FREAKING WINCHESTER!
Mary was trying way too hard. Does she think she needs to be Dean? But she’s got all the wrong ideas about how to deal with Sam. She annoys the hell out of him (“You keep saying that” and the way Sam all but snaps at her in the car). She doesn’t seem to “get” Sam or know how to verbally spar with him the way Dean does, although she’s obviously trying. It’s a little cringe-worthy. That whole scene in the car was a testament to how absent Dean is in this episode. It was super sad :(
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In fairness to Jensen, the previous actor didn't give him much to work with. And, in fairness to the previous actor, the material didn't give him much to work with. The truth is, Michael is a boring character and always has been; Matt Cohen was an interesting actor.
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With the conversation in the car, I really got the sense that Mary is younger than Sam coming through clear as day. For all she’s a capable hunter, she hasn’t gone through everything Sam (and Dean) have, not even close. And she’s trying to keep her chin up and mother Sam anyway, and Sam gently called her on it because no, he’s been through too much not to be a realist about this. A really fascinating dynamic, and it can’t be easy for either of them to have the parent/child relationship flowing the wrong way, as it were.
Kip became much more interesting to me once he admitted he was deliberately aping Crowley, putting on a nice-demon mask. His dedication to his character was impressive, but there were cracks showing through the darkness.
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(Anonymous) 2018-10-15 10:01 am (UTC)(link)Well, Sam asked him about Dean and if he remember anything , so I think he is doing that for Dean's sake.
Regarding wether Nick is Lucifer or not, since Cas told Jack that his grace will restore with time, and Lucifer has stolen some of that grace, so maybe Lucifer will restore back with time too. I hope this never happen.
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I watched a big chunk of this episode. SAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAM!
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I was annoyed with the return of Nick. The fact that he has only some memory of what happened when he was possessed seems like a cop out. Though I was happy they addressed the elephant in the room re: how Sam must feel having to see "Lucifer". I genuinely felt like the whole thing is meant to give them an out later. (They can kill Michael with the archangel blade, but still have Dean survive.)
I don't know how I feel about Jensen as Michael!Dean. His portrayal of Demon!Dean was better, but I kind of really hate the Michael character, which I assume we're mean to do, so maybe that means Jensen is doing an amazing job.
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