10.20 On further review

[caranfindel]

Yes, I'm rethinking things already!

My initial reaction to Dean telling Claire that Jimmy's sacrifice let Castiel save the world was "Oh, that's nice." Because it was nice, that her father's death meant something. She needed to hear that. And honestly, it was nice that Dean was giving credit to Cas for once, since it seems like he has a habit of using him and maybe not being as appreciative as he should. Or perhaps just not expressing that appreciation.

And then I got on Tumblr and said, well. Huh. Because some of my Tumblr friends are seething right now.

Why didn't it occur to me that by saying what he did, Dean was denying Sam's role? Because I absolutely didn't take it that way until it was pointed out to me by a cadre of angry Sam!Girls. Why was I not one of those angry Sam!Girls?

What do you guys think?

Comments

[kalliel]

It didn't bother me at all, personally. XD I mean, he was talking to Claire. Claire doesn't care about the specifics, man! And jeez, as far as Dean's concerned (and he is reasonably correct) both he and Sam are dirt or less to her. It's not about them; it's about Claire, and her family, and Castiel. To say anything else to her would have been like, oh hey, you know, your dad was a swell guy, but it's not like there weren't other people working at that ad agency he was employed at! XP And I think it'd be a major stretch to actually try to make yourself believe that Dean doesn't have very vivid memories of how the end of S5 went down (where it was very, VERY much about Sam, arguably to Castiel's exclusion).

[balder12.livejournal.com]

I totally agree. It was a one-on-one conversation between Dean and a grieving teenager who needed to hear that her father's death had meaning, so that's what Dean played up. She has no reason to care what the Winchesters did, so he left it out--especially since explaining it might well involve getting into a lot of horrific realities he doesn't need to drop on her in that moment. He didn't give any credit to himself in that scene either.

Also, at a Doylist level it would have been odd to have Dean go into an explanation of show history that the audience already knows, and that wasn't relevant to the episode.

[kalliel]

Right! Plus, lol, Dean probably doesn't remember this, but he already did the whole "and then a bunch of people saved the world and it was complicated" rundown for a teenage girl in 10x05, and her reaction was basically LOL y u tell me this. So if he did remember that interaction, there'd be even more reason to not do that again. XDD

[tabaqui]

What you said. It was about Claire and her dead father, not about Sam, or Dean. Context, what is it.

[anactoria.livejournal.com]

Why didn't it occur to me that by saying what he did, Dean was denying Sam's role? Because I absolutely didn't take it that way until it was pointed out to me by a cadre of angry Sam!Girls. Why was I not one of those angry Sam!Girls?

Because you possess the capacity to remove your Character Wars goggles and take things in context?

[manzanita-crow.livejournal.com]

Yes i am most definitely a Samgirl but it didnt bother me. Context people! 😃

[quickreaver.livejournal.com]

Didn't bother me at all, either. I saw the complaints and I was like "Huh, what?" Yeah, like others have said: HELLO, CONTEXT. Also ... intention! Dean was comforting Claire, and the ep's writer, Bob Berens, isn't one of the writers who tends to shortchange (or bland-ify) Sam. We are waaaaay too sensitive in fandom sometimes, and that's not me being callous. We all have our own reasons for seeing slights but sometimes, it's just not as 'meta' or subtextual as we make it. Hell, MANY times. And this is one of 'em.

[dreamsofspike.livejournal.com]

Honestly? I think the angry Sam!girls are overreacting massively. :/

OF COURSE Sam had a HUGE part in saving the world. Thing is, they ALL did. Team Free Will did it together (Baby included :P ). That was... kind of the point, wasn't it?

It's just that Sam's part in it is NOT RELEVANT TO CLAIRE. What Dean is trying to get across to Claire is why what her father did was honorable and important, why HER DAD is a hero. And for him to toss out, "Well, it was mostly Sam but Cas helped" totally diminishes that and since she WASN'T THERE, it wouldn't have nearly the effect that what he said, had.

I think it was perfectly acceptable for him to say and made perfect sense.

[cuddyclothes.livejournal.com]

I didn't have a problem with it...it made sense in context. To Claire: "Cas helped me and Sam save the world." It kind of leads to "how?"

[casey679.livejournal.com]

It didn't bother me at all. He was comforting a girl who'd lost her father. He's not there to aggrandize him or his brother.

[madebyme-x.livejournal.com]

I'm with the above. It didn't bother me at all. Dean was definitely trying to console Claire, to give her a reason for her loss and Jimmy's sacrifice, so that she can move on. That's how I read it, and will continue to read it.

[auroramama]

Context, sure, and I would have been fine with it in isolation. But Dean never corrects anyone who leaves Sam out of it, in any context. So it was, whatsit, just a reminder of something we Samgirls have lost.

[flawedteacup.livejournal.com]

Yeah! What you said. I mean, I am still not over Charlie and her "bad luck with girls" comment. I'm sorry, WHO saved the world?

[spnmonster.livejournal.com]

Right. The problem isn't the context in the episode, it's the context of the past three seasons in which Sam's enormous self-sacrifice has been downplayed or ignored while Dean and Cas have been given credit for their relatively small contribution. At the same time, Sam has been blamed for starting the apocalypse as though his actions alone led to it.

[flawedteacup.livejournal.com]

Just after I commented, I saw this:

Robbie Thompson @rthompson1138 · 1d 1 day ago
As scripted, "Cas was able to HELP save the world," y'all. Got changed on the day in performance, but still works. #CalmDown #Supernatural

from twitter. So I guess I will #calmdown. MAYBE. If you give me more of Sam's hair, hands, or neck.