Meta: As of 9.10, is Gadreel a good guy or bad guy?

[caranfindel]

I'm still unsure how I'm supposed to feel about Gadreel. Spoilery for 9.10.

I do believe he had good intentions when he possessed Sam. He used up his own energy to save Cas and Charlie, when he could have saved it to heal himself. And the fact that Sam is mostly healed at the end of 9.10 indicates that he's been doing some work while he was in there (although it could have simply been a plan to get that tasty meatsuit for himself).

So, let's look at Gadreel's good and bad side:

Good

• Healed Sam


• Saved Dean


• Resurrected Castiel


• Resurrected Charlie


• Put Sam in a dream instead of letting him experience possession and torture

Bad

• Let Lucifer into the Garden (truly bad or just tricked/misled/naive?)


• Coerced Dean into kicking Castiel out of the bunker


• Lied to Dean


• Killed Kevin


• Killed Abner


• Stole the Impala


• Refused to leave Sam

Gadreel also has many Sam-like qualities

• Followed the wrong person. And unlike Sam, he didn't have someone he should have trusted telling him not to.


• Did the wrong things for what he believed were the right reasons. Yes, it's horrible that he killed Kevin and Abner (Thaddeus, not so much). But he thought he was saving his people. If I can forgive Sam for killing Cindy the nurse, why can't I forgive Gadreel?


• Didn't question the one who encouraged him to distrust/abandon those he trusted most.

Just a few hours until 9.11, so things may be more black and white after that. But for now, I love that Gadreel is such a gray area for me. What do you think?

Comments

[nesmith.livejournal.com]

I think it's too soon to tell, frankly, but it's clear that we're being presented with something more than "he's a bad guy who needs to be ganked." As much as I want to hate him, I don't feel like I understand him well enough.

What I'm curious about (and will have to re-watch the ep) is are they saying that Gadreel just let Lucifer in (since Show is evidently going with the Miltonic Fall) or that he was tricked--with the implication that he should have known better? If so it seems kind of hypocritical for Cas to be so rigid when he's given absolution to Sam and Dean, who have both been tricked in the past.

I think it's an interest mix of characters and storylines going on now and I just hope the writers follow through with it.

[caranfindel.livejournal.com]

What I'm curious about (and will have to re-watch the ep) is are they saying that Gadreel just let Lucifer in (since Show is evidently going with the Miltonic Fall) or that he was tricked--with the implication that he should have known better?

I don't think they've really said anything about Lucifer tricking him, but given the way he was played by Metatron, it certainly seems likely.

[nesmith.livejournal.com]

Very true; he seems to be very easily manipulated and too willing to ignore what might strike him as wrong.

[counteragent.livejournal.com]

He's kind of an idiot is my general feeling, which sadly makes his choices less interesting to me. I wish they'd made him a compelling character, perhaps charming or funny or strange or anything. It would have been so cool if we'd been half rooting for him to stay. Alas!!!

[counteragent.livejournal.com]

Ack just ignore me! I am being too negative. I agree with you that it is not yet clear how things will shake out but I'd bet my money on a redemption arc.

[balder12.livejournal.com]

I also bet on a redemption arc. I'd put cash money on the fact that in 9.23 he'll do a heel-face turn, realize how wrong he's been, and die betraying Metatron and saving the Winchesters. I just wish it weren't so predictable. This show could do with a few more chaotic neutrals.

[caranfindel.livejournal.com]

Well, they surprised me by having the Gadreel story in the first place, so I've got to give them points for that!

[counteragent.livejournal.com]

Yeah, this is what will happen, bet my lunch money. (snore)

I like redemption arcs, but again if the character were actually meant to be a real player in the season, he should have been a lot more interesting. I didn't mind his blandness when the main thing I was focusing on was Sam and Dean...

[caranfindel.livejournal.com]

I'd say you're being realistic, not negative. And I'm a chirpy little optimist!

[kalliel]

"No more stupid angels! But maybe some funny ones..."

XDDD

[spnmonster.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure whether he's really that concerned about saving his people or whether he just wants his reputation restored. I get the feeling it's more about his pride.

I'm curious about why he was so dead set on staying inside Sam when he knew he had a vessel that would accept him. If he has this mission to carry out, why say that he had all the time in the world to out wait Crowley, Dean and Cas?

He has come across as stupid, but he certainly knew how to play Dean, which for an angel that's been locked up in heaven's dungeon since the dawn of time is pretty danged savvy, I think.

[caranfindel.livejournal.com]

I'm curious about why he was so dead set on staying inside Sam when he knew he had a vessel that would accept him.

I said the same thing in my episode recap. When things got hairy, why didn't he go back to his previous vessel?

[tifaching.livejournal.com]

He did...but he made the classic "leaving Dean alive" mistake, which loses him some savvy points with me. :)

Also, I'm hoping there was an actual reason he was so dead set on staying in Sam and that we find out what it was.

[anactoria.livejournal.com]

I'm curious about why he was so dead set on staying inside Sam when he knew he had a vessel that would accept him.

Also been wondering that. My pet theory at the moment is that it's to do with Lucifer; maybe Gadreel is out for revenge on him, and there's something locked away in Sam's memories that will help him do that? But, uh, probably not.

[cuddyclothes.livejournal.com]

Since Sam was meant to be a powerful vessel, Gadreel probably thought he could stay in Sam as long as he wanted. My own bit of puzzlement is that why Sam seemed to be getting worse rather than better while Gadreel was inside.

Gadreel strikes me as conflicted. He seems a bit dumber that a lot of other angels. They're adjusting all over the place to being in human vessels. I'm guessing Gadreel thought everything was under control until Metatron showed up. If Castiel (who is way more savvy) got played by Metatron, why not Gadreel? He's been locked up since the dawn of time, so he has not been able to observe human behavior. Or angel behavior, for that matter. He was truly conflicted about Kevin and Abner. He demands of Metatron how many more must he kill. And Metratron says, yeah, walk away, everyone thinks you're a dumbass.

I'll be interested in how Gadreel behaves now that he's in a hot new vessel.

ETA: With Buddy Boyle, we were given a pretty gross example of what happens when an angel chooses the wrong vessel!