Episode poll 11.20: "Don't Call Me Shurley"

[caranfindel]

[Poll #2044327]

As always, no spoilers in the comments, please!

Comments

[cuddyclothes.livejournal.com]

As much as I loved the Chuck/Metratron scenes, I'm not at all happy with God being brought in.
a) Chuck being God and being "Method" in all of his scenes, including the ones in S4 WHEN CHUCK HADN'T EVEN MET THE WINCHESTERS
b) invalidating seasons 4-11: earlier today I saw "Jus In Bello" and got pissed off all over again. I HATE TO THINK CHUCK IS FUCKING WATCHING WHAT'S GOING ON. DO NOT RUIN THIS FOR ME.
c) it's just too over the top
d) what the hell are they going to do in Season 12? Bring in the Justice League?

[caranfindel.livejournal.com]

I'm okay with Chuck sitting back and watching, because I'm a Deist/"God the clockmaker" kind of gal anyway. But that only works if Chuck sits back and watches EVERYTHING. And clearly he doesn't. It makes no sense for him to step in sometimes, and other times sit back and watch awful things happen.

[ameliacareful.livejournal.com]

So they can't keep God around. If God is being and Amara is nothingness, maybe there needs to be a balance?

Or maybe they're like matter and antimatter and when they meet they'll cancel each other out? Not they that really makes sense but it's Supernatural.

[flatlanderjr.livejournal.com]

If they're matter and antimatter, then when they meet, maybe they'll power the Impala's newly installed warp drive.

[percysowner.livejournal.com]

I still hate Chuck being God. I'm terribly afraid that God, having saved Cas all these times before will announce that 1) He needs Lucifer to stop Amara 2) He doesn't want Cas to be possessed by Lucifer 3) Since The Darkness being released is ALL SAM'S FAULT then 4) He will ask Sam to accept Lucifer again so 5) Sam will end up in The Empty with God, Amara and Lucifer all of whom don't like him and somehow it will all become about how HARD it is for Dean to know that Sam is lost to him (until Sam is resurrected, which will happen). I'm not spoiled, but it's Sam's turn to die and it fits the pattern of previous seasons, IMHO.

I really hated God blaming Sam for the release of Amara instead of letting Metatron's statement that Sam and Dean released her stand. I'm not really even that happy that the Samulet is back, or at least not the way it came back. I wanted Dean to say something about regretting throwing it out and apologizing to Sam for that, but that's off the table now.

The acting was great. The dialog was great. I hated the basic premise for so many reasons.

[caranfindel.livejournal.com]

I really hated God blaming Sam for the release of Amara instead of letting Metatron's statement that Sam and Dean released her stand.

I don't even remember that part!

[casey679.livejournal.com]

I thought it was pretty clear he was just pulling out as many excuses as possible for giving up on humanity, as opposed to deep down to-the-core blame.

[amypond45.livejournal.com]

I LOVE the whole idea that Sam had that amulet all the time, who am I kidding???? The first time I watched I sort of ignored the Metatron scenes because I still HATE him so much -- he KILLED Dean! But I don't mind the Chuck-revealed-as-God storyline at all. I guess I don't mind God popping in, since he's already been established as a character, albeit an absent one.

Oh and I have to add this silly idea I had because it struck me on second viewing when Chuck scolded Metatron for burning "Tall Tales" and then said that Lucifer wasn't his favorite (am I remembering that right?) because the first thing I thought of was Gabriel! Bring him back! Then we can have Rob and Rich together in a scene and my need for shameless meta at every opportunity will be satisfied yet again.

[caranfindel.livejournal.com]

Then we can have Rob and Rich together in a scene and my need for shameless meta at every opportunity will be satisfied yet again.

Aw. Yes.

[anactoria.livejournal.com]

I'm in the 'loved some, hated some' camp again this week. While I really enjoyed some of the Chuck and Metatron scenes, I still wish the whole Chuck-is-God thing had been left in fanon where it belongs. I was quite fond of harried prophet!Chuck, but God!Chuck is despicable.

[caranfindel.livejournal.com]

I'm in the 'loved some, hated some' camp again this week.

I'm adding that option to my poll template right now!

[fanspired]

Ironing (a 2fer): Sam insists they take it in turns to do the ironing; Dean irons Sam's shirts with beer in the hope that Sam will eventually give up on insisting Dean takes his turn.

[caranfindel.livejournal.com]

I APPROVE.

[fanspired]

On the subject of the God plot: I don't think it was their intention to make Chuck God when they first introduced the character in S4, but from the start of S5 it was clear there was an active God in the story from the moment he yanked Sam and Dean away from Lucifer and into the plane (which I always thought was a really weird start to the season btw) and then there was Castiel's resurrection, Dark Side of the Moon, and Castiel's resurrection. Again. Since they'd actively made God a character I suppose there was an impetus to identify him, and Chuck was the obvious candidate. Having said that, I think Kripke deliberately left his status ambiguous so that the character could have multiple meanings. It was implied, but never confirmed. I feel they've limited the character by positively identifying him in this way. Having said that, I think Robbie made interesting use of the trope.

[flawedteacup.livejournal.com]

Has anyone read "Wouldn't It Be Nice"? There's got to be more to this comparison than Keith vs. Brian or just the titles. I read "Life," and it definitely laid everything out, good and bad.

[caranfindel.livejournal.com]

I haven't read it but I got the impression that WIBN was kind of a boring happy version that didn't get into the nitty gritty.

[safiyabat.livejournal.com]

I just about lost my mind when Chuck blamed the Darkness' release on Sam and Sam alone. Kind of like so many people blamed Lucifer's release on Sam and Sam alone, when then (as now) there were multiple factors leading up to that one act to include a lack of useful information on Sam's part.

Also, it reminded me that Chuck helped to goad Sam toward Lucifer's release. ("Does it all rest on my shoulders?" "It does look like the story's heading that way...")

And then finally claiming that Lucifer isn't a villain? No. Sorry. With everything that Lucifer did to Sam alone, which isn't even in dispute by anyone in universe, Lucifer is a villain.

I considered skipping this one. I wish that I'd considered a little harder.

[glovered.livejournal.com]

God bless you, safiyabat. We basically have all the same answers.

[caranfindel.livejournal.com]

And then finally claiming that Lucifer isn't a villain? No. Sorry. With everything that Lucifer did to Sam alone, which isn't even in dispute by anyone in universe, Lucifer is a villain.

I didn't take this to mean Lucifer isn't CURRENTLY a villain. I interpreted it to mean the Lucifer who fell from Heaven wasn't a villain; that he wasn't an evil character who had to be locked up. And of course some have suggested that the Mark twisted him the same way it twisted Dean, and turned him into what he is now, which is definitely a villain. It will be interesting to see if this is the case, and if God regrets what he did to Lucifer (and therefore to those affected by Lucifer).

(Standard disclaimer... I could be wrong; I often am)

[safiyabat.livejournal.com]

I see your point, and I can see a lot of the Mark twisting Lucifer into what he is now. I still feel like the line, without qualification as it was presented at air time, goes too far in terms of deeming Lucifer's actions to be forgivable, even acceptable. And considering exactly what those actions were, I have a lot of issues with that.

[caranfindel.livejournal.com]

True about the way it was presented. I tend to think the writers are being more thoughtful than they actually are.

[casey679.livejournal.com]

The questions about the amulet (where has it been, where will it go [not ultimate destination/use but just where it will go]) were apparently answered by the actors at the Asylum convention that just happened. Happy to share what was tweeted if you are curious; it spoilers nothing as far as I know.

[caranfindel.livejournal.com]

Actually, someone posted about this earlier, but they weren't sure if it was just the guys giving their own headcanon or if it was something that would actually come up in the show later, so I screened it.

[casey679.livejournal.com]

Jared's might be his personal headcanon, although the quotes made him seem pretty certain. Jensen's I think is definite, because he doesn't like it around his neck because it hits his teeth when he runs.

[ash48.livejournal.com]

I've spewed my dislike of this episode all over my journal so won't repeat here. What I have neglected to get excited about was SAM'S FACE! And worried Dean with his hands all over Sam.

The only thing that forgives this episode (for me) is it was Robbie's Swan Song and he wanted to say goodbye. I suppose I can't deny him that. Much.

[caranfindel.livejournal.com]

Sam's face in this episode makes up for a multitude of sins.

[madebyme-x.livejournal.com]

I'm hopeful and reserving judgement for future episodes. I hope they give us an unexpected twist, but I suspect Chuck will not be staying around for long. I still think Amara is going to go something very bad to Chuck (The Empty?), and he won't be in the picture for long. But surprise me Show, give us all a wonderfully terrible and painful cliffhanger that we'll all hate but secretly love!!

[z-publicizes.livejournal.com]

Loved some, disliked some. I wasn't really feeling the Sam and Dean moments - they felt obligatory, and all the same emotional beats had been hit only a few episodes back, with better execution. The viral fog had great cinematography and CGI though, and I loved the unraveling duct-tape which felt sort of emblematic of Sam and Dean ''fixing-things" in general.

Alas, I greatly dislike amulet fixits and have since the first moment someone came up with the notion that Sam might have taken the amulet out of the trash.

The stuff I loved was God!Chuck and Metatron. I'd long ago accepted that Chuck being God was probably the authorial intent and might be made explicit text at some point, but I've never been too fond of it. But guy-who-plays-Chuck's acting and God being such a flawed, petty, miserable bastard (which, I never thought SPN God could be any other way, I was just pleased by the execution) who needs to be read by Metatron, of all people, sold me on it. At least for this episode, who knows how I'll feel by the end of the season.